What's been said about Elves.

[Rinneh]

Hokay.
What's up with people thinking Elves are snooty and angsty about nothing at all? If you've ever read Tolkien's works, you'll know that BAD THINGS DO HAPPEN TO THE ELVES. Certainly more then they've happened to the Men in the Tolkien universe.

I use the Tolkien standard for all Elves, because...well....because I do. I just picture Elves the way their are portayed in the Lord of the Rings.

{Note: this is a ramble from someone well versed in Tolkien lore. Spoilers may occur}

Think about Morgoth for a second here.
The Elves were mutilated and tortured, and thus became the horricif Orcs. Wouldn't it depress you if that was happening to your people? If they disappeared without returning?

Their thriving civilization fell -- cities like Gondolin and Nargothrond were sacked and burned, their citizens slaughtered or dragged back to Thangorodrim as thralls to Morgoth.

There was the whole business of the Kinslayings, and the fact that they're slowly leaving M.E. and going back to Aman, from whence many of them came. Their journey from there was difficult, too -- many had to cross the ice floes in the north of Arda.

That's bad stuff, guys.

So just a note -- I don't think of Elves as perfect. Really.
I also wanted to let you guys know that I go a little more with the good Professor's ideas when it comes to races mentioned within the pages of his books. He's the original, from which most things were based. It will do you good to remember that. ^^

READ THE SILMARILLION!!11!11!1!



That is all.

[Aux-ash]

To my understanding elves being "snooty" and "angsty" in popular fantasy usually seems to be connected to elven arrogance which is a by-product from elven immortality. They simply think they are better than humans due to living lives that span the millenia.

Here we won't have that problem of course since elves lives roughly the same length of time as humans. This will naturally make them a lot easier to play since we can have them experience the same sensation of time as we do.

And I would advise against playing elves as they are portrayed in Tolkien's works. There they are a ageless civilization that has endured enormous disasters but know that they once were chosen by the Vala.
Furthermore, Tolkien was never the best at describing people. He could spend several hundred words describing a single tree, but originally there was not a single mention that the elves had pointed ears in the books (just a example). (that said, I still think his books are the best I've ever read ).

And Tolkien is not the original. He shaped modern fantasy that is true. But all his works is heavily inspired particularly by Celtic and Norse mythology. The high elves for instance are almost identical to the elves of Alfheim and the sindarin are very alike the Celtic equivalent.

As previously mentioned, playing the elves as the elves of Tolkien works is not precisely fitting since these are so fundamentally different.
Here elves are short-lived and worship beauty to the point of a horrific practice. Anyone not pretty enough is declared a "grotesque" and forbidden to have their own children. Their civilization fell due to the harpies and now every single elf is a refugee.
They have so much promise and with a little work they can grow deeper. We don't need to use Tolkien's works as a model on how to play because we have got enough material on them already to shape their own nature.

I am more than willing to discuss cultural traits and similar over pms and the dehumanization-topic with you, the more depth to the elves the better

[engelbert]

Actually i don't find Elves in literary works that snooty. I find that most (but certainly not all) roleplayers portray them that way.

It's quite annoying to enter a fantasy roleplay and find that... once again, it's the Elf that's sat on his high horse. It's the Elf that knows every language, known and unknown, to man. It's the Elf that smiles depreciatingly at his companions.

Any anti-elf comments i have made are aimed at Elf roleplayers that continue to steriotype elves into a bracket of raised authority and genius.

As Aux-ash has pointed out, i've made the Elves here the very -opposite- of this by knocking the pedalstal they sit upon from out under their pretty backsides.

Elves are no longer immortal. Their differences from humans can be seen as normal from an evolutionary standing point. For example, chinese facial features and europian facial features. They're different, but they're otherwise the same. This goes for the Elves and humans. Yes, they're two distinct races... But not dramatically different. Only on the outside and culturally.

Elves still have a dramatic past to cry over, instead of orcs, they have harpies. But, as will be worked out with Aux-ash (and anyone else that's interested) this will serve to produce conflict and yet more interesting perspectives to roleplay from.

<3

[Zachariah]

I don't mind tragic elf lore, what I do mind is them angsting about it because:
A. No particular reason, the author was just stupid.
B. To gain attention in the Roleplay by suddenly bursting out crying or fainting, mainly because someone else is being spoken to and they are no longer the center of attention.
C. They're huge mary-sues.
4. To make their own personal tragic past look more tragic in comparison to their people's history, even to the point of making up lore that didn't exist just to bolster their character's angstiness.

[engelbert]

4. To make their own personal tragic past look more tragic in comparison to their people's history, even to the point of making up lore that didn't exist just to bolster their character's angstiness.

Example:

Not only did the elf lose their family in the hostile war with harpies but they're outcast by their fellow elves for... uglyness... oh... and they have weird talents that aren't normal. They had a boyfriend that they were going to marry who took to beating them. They killed the boyfriend and now they live each day by self-harming to reduce the guilt. Not only do they self harm but a young girl saw them self harming and copied so now they feel even worse. They had their knife stolen so they have to self harm by running into trees to cause concussion.

Oh... and they're allergic to... *snaps fingers*... oh yeah... Other elves.

Not to mention the fact that no one could ever possibly connect emotionally with them because they're not only tragic, but suffer from ADHD, depression, anxiety disorders, bulimia, anorexia and last but not least paraniod schizophrenia.

[Rinneh]

I completely see your point(s).

And about the roleplayers, Englebert. I COMPLETELY understand. I don't think Elves should be arrogant because they're immortal.

And, Aux-Ash -- I was trying to point out that he was the original modern fantasy writer. Of course Celtic and Norse mythology came first; they're great, and very inspiring.
xD
Also -- the Elves I use are like Tolkien's in appearance, manner, and speech. I know the ones here aren't immortal. And that's kinda cool. Different and all that. I just use them as a basic template -- talller than humans, fair, etc. When I mentioned portrayal, it was more physical and linguistic portrayal than anything concerning their civilization in the Lord of the Rings. I distinguish a lot between Tolkien and other Elves. -shrug- Call me biased. I'm a LotR addict.

I suppose my stuff is more for Elf roleplayers than all of you. But I just wanted to get it out there. Ignore any of my rants. (:

[engelbert]

Ignore any of my rants. (:

Goodness me, but that'd be a silly idea. I've always found that rants spark the best of conversations/discussions/arguments off

[Rinneh]

Sometimes mine get overemotional and out of hand.
This one probably did. D: I do happen to love Elves.

[Zachariah]

Not only did the elf lose their family in the hostile war with harpies but they're outcast by their fellow elves for... uglyness... oh... and they have weird talents that aren't normal. They had a boyfriend that they were going to marry who took to beating them. They killed the boyfriend and now they live each day by self-harming to reduce the guilt. Not only do they self harm but a young girl saw them self harming and copied so now they feel even worse. They had their knife stolen so they have to self harm by running into trees to cause concussion.

Oh... and they're allergic to... *snaps fingers*... oh yeah... Other elves.

Not to mention the fact that no one could ever possibly connect emotionally with them because they're not only tragic, but suffer from ADHD, depression, anxiety disorders, bulimia, anorexia and last but not least paraniod schizophrenia.

Oh, sweet Mary-Sue, you never let us down.

[Zianorak1]

Well, now I feel really stupid and overly dramatic. I know that this really has no point, but you all were talking about how the Roleplayers were making their characters more dramatic and attention-centered. You all mentioned how their parents were killed and that kinda struck a nerve with me.

I have killed the parents off of both my roleplaying characters. Byrin lost her mother to sickness and her father to heartbreak. Aric lost his mother to a raiding Troglodyte band, and his father was lost in the war. I know it's probably not the same but I wanted to make my intentions known. It might sound as if I am being defensive, and I am.

I killed Aric's parents off the way I did because he needed reasons to get closer to his wind deity. He is deeply connected with the wind, and he couldn't have done that had he still had his parents around. The elder would have chosen a protege, and it probably wouldn't have been Aric. Having Aric forced upon him was the easiest, and most effifienct way of arranging this.

Byrin, well, I must admit that Byrin's parents death was for similar, but totally different reasons. Byrin is the only daughter to the man and woman. From what I could guess, in medieval times, the women were usually held responsible for their aging parents. They either let their parents die, or take care of them. Seeing as how she was an only child, she couldn't force her parents on one of her siblings. By allowing Byrin to lose her parents, I have loosed the chains that would have bound her to them. Which I explained in the not-so-successful-R.P. that I had started.

Also, since we are on the topic of elves. I thought I would place in a little of my own beliefs on the race.

Elves were not high and mighty as many believed. They were not more beautiful than any other race, but they were much more graceful, due to their origins. They are called the fair race because of their judgements concerning wars and battles. They must be justified totally before they enter into any type of race.
Now I think that their long lives was a blessing, a gift for their steady belief in their godess. I believe that they were a fallen race (a race which had been born within the realms of the immortals but due to some crime which they commited had to come to earth).

They were punished for their crime, but they were no longer considered part of the Immortal realm. Their godess, the godess of balance, demanded that they remain balanced within their judgements and because of thier loyalty gave them back their lengthy lives. They can die of course, but not in a sense in which we know. They can be killed by sword or deed, but they pass out of this world as they grow older. Once they are truly ready to "pass on."

This however leaves a hole, that is what you are thinking I am sure. What if an Elf turned against the ways of the godess? Well, it depends on which way they turn. If they are still held to the desires of thier immortal, then they still contain the long life. However, if they fall from the path, that immortality is repossessed and they are subject to the sickness and death, that all earthy beings are susceptible to.

That was my ramblings, sorry...

[engelbert]

Hold on Sugar. We're not having a dig at people who's parents have died in roleplays, it's about the piling on of layers of over-dramatisation.

Heck, i'd merrily play someone who's parents had died... but they wouldn't be in abusive relationships, mentally disturbed, living on the street, inches from starvation and hunted by the police too all at the same time.

It's this that we're having a dig at. People can only logically take so much pain before ending it all.

[Zianorak1]

Oh, alright then. We're good. I was just a little disturbed at the thought that my characters were falling into this line of thinking.

If I'm just being paranoid, as Engelbert has pointed out, then just ignore me....

[Zachariah]

There is an EXTENSIVELY fine line between attention-whoring and having an interesting past, and you happen to fall into the latter. It's those who embellish their hearbreakingly-tragic pasts to the point where it's just sort of pitiful that I hate.